Andrew McDonald is The Neurodivergent Copywriter. He specializes in helping neurodiverse entrepreneurs build and scale their businesses to reach their full potential. He does this by cutting through the noise from neurotypical-focused gurus and experts who deliver advice and tips aimed for NT audiences. There is more than one way to grow a successful business and Andrew will guide you to it. Andrew’s website is andrewmcdonald.biz

He also offers a free guide to building a marketing outreach campaign as a neurodiverse entrepreneur at andrewmcdonald.biz/book

Key Moments

[00:00:54] Neurodiverse entrepreneur coach helps grow businesses.

[00:04:09] Neurodivergence, including ADHD, is like a superpower.

[00:08:07] Record time, sold reality, you know what?

[00:09:59] Unique all-women perspective marginalized by neurodivergence

[00:13:17] Neurodiverse person struggled with workplace bullying.

[00:17:22] Chasing dreams, beware of unrealistic programs.

Find Andrew Online

andrewmcdonald.biz

andrewmcdonald.biz/book

linkedin.com/in/andrewamcdonald/

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Transcript Provided By CastMagic.io

Seth [00:00:00]:

Entrepreneur’s Enigma is a podcast for the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, so the wins and the fails that we all face being entrepreneurs, how we learn from adversity. Every week, I talk to a different entrepreneur with a story to tell. I’m Seth Goldstein. Come with me on the journey. This is Entrepreneur’s Enigma. Let’s get started. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Entrepreneur’s Enigma podcast.

Seth [00:00:35]:

As always, I am Seth, your host. Today, I have Andrew McDonald all the way from across the pond. I think he’s in Ireland or Wales. I think he’s Welsh, but lives in Ireland. Or he’s Irish and he lives in Wales. Wanted to well, we’re ironing that out. We only get him up up here on the stage here. Andrew is a neurodivergent copywriter.

Seth [00:00:54]:

He specializes in helping neurodiverse entrepreneurs build and scale their businesses to reach their full potential. He does this by cutting through the noise to the neurotypical focus gurus, ew, and experts who deliver advice and tips aimed at neurotypical people who, you know, there’s always, doesn’t always compute to us neurodivergent people. There’s more than one way we grow a business, and Andrew will guide you through it. And let’s bring Andrew in here. Hey, Andrew. How’s it going? So you’re you’re Welsh living in Ireland?

Andrew [00:01:27]:

Correct. Yeah.

Seth [00:01:28]:

Alright. I got it right the first time. Okay. Alright. Yep. So are you a Rexam fan?

Andrew [00:01:34]:

Well, yes. Yeah.

Seth [00:01:36]:

I mean, not at this point. Yeah?

Andrew [00:01:38]:

Yeah. It’s but I was I was actually born in Wrexham, New

Seth [00:01:41]:

York City. Wow. We were, like, local.

Andrew [00:01:44]:

My home is, like, 6 miles from Wrexham, from Wrexham Town. So I was actually watching Wrexham before the

Seth [00:01:55]:

Oh, back back in their in their in their heyday.

Andrew [00:01:57]:

Yeah. Before before Reynolds and, McElhenney came along. But it’s really weird because I’ve always had to kinda once I went outside the local area, I’ve always had to describe myself as coming from Wrexham, which is near Chester, and then some

Seth [00:02:17]:

Chester is not in Wales. Right?

Andrew [00:02:19]:

To see in England. Yeah. And then sometimes even I have to say, you know, we’re not We’re not that far from Liverpool and Manchester. And

Seth [00:02:30]:

But you’re not really far for anything in England, in the UK. I mean, let’s let’s be honest. It’s The size of maybe the East Coast, if that.

Andrew [00:02:37]:

That’s true. That’s true.

Seth [00:02:38]:

So, I mean, the fact that, you know, Wales is its own country, sort of, you know, and then, like, Scotland’s own country, sort of. Ireland is the only one that’s kind of got while in in the in the area is the only one that’s kinda got it it right where it’s like, we’re not part of the UK. We are our own country. Damn it.

Andrew [00:02:55]:

Yeah. But, no. It’s really strange because I’ve spent my whole life explaining where I come from, and now I have people all saying, oh, do you do you know Rexam? Because they’re obviously the the Hollywood.

Seth [00:03:11]:

In the wild. Wales is not that big.

Andrew [00:03:14]:

Yeah. Yeah. No.

Seth [00:03:15]:

So you see your whales and then Rex’s, like, well, well, that’s always the only thing you know about what whales. And most people know about whales is that Rex’s. Thanks thanks to my uncle Henning, you know. Other than that, it’s, like, what’s whales? Mhmm. Because I just spelled weird. It’s not it’s not whale. It’s whales.

Andrew [00:03:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and dragon is, dragon is our national animal rather

Seth [00:03:37]:

than whales. Flag.

Andrew [00:03:39]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have

Seth [00:03:39]:

a very cool flag. So you are a neurodivergent copywriter who loves the pit bull. Clearly. Doesn’t have a pit bull, but once a pit bull at some point, if you’re gonna read it, say, Andrew Mcdonald dotbiz. But his logo is A pit bull, which I like how you explain it that it’s kind of misunderstood. It’s actually a very capable animal. It’s just its reputation is gets ahead of itself, and it’s not fair, essentially.

Andrew [00:04:08]:

Yeah. And it

Seth [00:04:09]:

kinda goes for neurodivergence too. I mean, because there’s I mean and neurodivergence is so broad a a topic. Like, I’m ADD. I mean, anyone who listens to this knows I’m as ADD as you can get, ADHD as you can get. Like, it’s just who I am. It’s a superpower. I always equate to Cyclops from the X Men with his, with until you kinda figure out a harness that you it’s like So it cost from X Men without his, visor on. And you’re, you know, shooting lasers everywhere.

Seth [00:04:34]:

I mean, it’s just going, like, completely all over the in place. But then there’s other things. There’s OCD, there’s PTSD, there’s this, there’s that, there’s, you know I mean, everything I mean, you’d be hard pressed to really Say that anyone’s really neuro typical because everyone has their own permanent Yeah. Bullshit going on. Yeah.

Andrew [00:04:53]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth [00:04:54]:

They’re on bullshit. So I’ll start start this with a tag early here. So but so how did you get started? Like, what’s what’s the origin story of Andrew here? Like, how did you get how did you find your way into doing Copywriting, you know, and helping people with neurodivergent kind of get a handle on the whole Nor a typical landscape.

Andrew [00:05:16]:

I mean, I’d always wanted to I’d always wanted to have my own business, and I loved, kind of where my skills and where my passions sort of collided, and writing Was one of those areas. From a very young age, I’ve been published in sort of national newspapers and magazines and so on.

Seth [00:05:40]:

I shot here. There you go.

Andrew [00:05:42]:

So, yeah. It’s always something that I’ve been able to do and I’ve enjoyed doing. And but I initially came across the sort of Make 6 figures in 6 months. Make money in your pajamas, stuff that you Yeah. Hear All the gurus and experts, kind of spouting everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew [00:06:12]:

Yeah. And I I don’t think that I don’t think that it’s Exclusive to copywriting or marketing, but I think that it’s sort of it’s almost That on steroids when it comes to copywriting and marketing. And the the the the outcome of that is that, Realistically, most people ain’t gonna achieve that. Not certainly not within 6 months.

Seth [00:06:39]:

Not this month, man. It’s 5 years, 15 years. It’s, like, the old 15 year overnight success. Yeah. I always say it’s, like, you know, oh, they’re overnight successfully been hacking away at this for 10 years.

Andrew [00:06:50]:

Yeah.

Seth [00:06:50]:

We’re gonna take a quick break, hear from our sponsors, and get right back to the show.

Andrew [00:06:54]:

Exactly. Precisely. But the the the message that you’re getting is almost that if you can’t achieve this within 6 months, Then you’re a failure. There’s something wrong with you.

Seth [00:07:09]:

Yeah. And so I typical people can’t do that either. So let’s let’s put that Yeah.

Andrew [00:07:13]:

Yeah. Yeah. For

Seth [00:07:14]:

sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew [00:07:15]:

So and that resulted in me like, I’m already neurodivergent. I already have anxiety Anxiety and depression issues.

Seth [00:07:26]:

Mhmm.

Andrew [00:07:28]:

And that resulted in me giving myself a really, really, really hard time.

Seth [00:07:36]:

Yeah. You know?

Andrew [00:07:36]:

You see

Seth [00:07:37]:

these people that are are these overnight successes, and they say, oh, you can do in 6 months. Well, they may have got it done 6 months once.

Andrew [00:07:44]:

Yep.

Seth [00:07:44]:

Yeah. And then we said, this is how I got here once and have they replicated it. I mean, some have, some some of them successful. But saying that you can get everyone can get it done in 6 months is bullshit, honestly.

Andrew [00:07:55]:

Yeah. No. It it is. It’s complete it’s complete bullshit. And, but this is the message that we’re getting from gurus and experts is

Seth [00:08:06]:

that Yeah.

Andrew [00:08:07]:

In quote Yeah. You can do you can do this in record time. And if you don’t, it’s not because we have sold you a version of reality that isn’t actually very real or that we’ve, We’ve like, you know, we we we Yeah. You know what I’m you know what I’m saying.

Seth [00:08:36]:

You know It’s not like it’s it’s their problem. It’s something wrong with you. And it’s not right. It’s not right because it’s nothing wrong with you. It’s Something wrong with the program that is not replicable, but they don’t wanna admit it because they’re snake oil salesman.

Andrew [00:08:48]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I kinda was looking around, and I was thinking, why isn’t this working for me? Why do Yeah. Why does, for example, blasting out cold emails after The cold email after cold email leave me feeling shit.

Seth [00:09:06]:

Because it does leave you feeling shit. Because it’s it’s very shitty feelings, very boring, very monotonous. Mhmm. And it’s even more so for the for the neurotypical. No. No. No. The verse.

Seth [00:09:15]:

Mhmm. Because it’s monotonous. It’s not it’s not it doesn’t keep our our brains firing very easily.

Andrew [00:09:22]:

Yeah. And I came across the a summit that was run by one of your previous guests, Claire.

Seth [00:09:32]:

Oh, yeah. God, I love Claire. Yeah. That’s where that’s where we met. Is we met via that.

Andrew [00:09:37]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth [00:09:39]:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew [00:09:41]:

And her neurodivergent entrepreneur summit kind of really struck me like a lightning bolt Because suddenly, there was this panel of people describing what I was feeling myself.

Seth [00:09:59]:

And and, in all honesty, even more unique because it was all women. And women and, I mean, as much as it wasn’t exactly a diverse group, Mhmm. It was from a perspective of of a group that is marginalized by neurodivergent divergence. Because they They don’t always present. I mean, guys are kind of it’s on our nose. Yes. Literally, like, we are, like, we you can tell when a a dude is ADHD. We’re very it’s on, you know, it’s honestly, but it’s, you know, we’re outwardly presenting.

Seth [00:10:30]:

There’s a lot of women aren’t outwardly presenting. I know a few that do, But not many. And so that I thought that was interesting about her whole cohort was that it was very yes. It wasn’t very diverse in the way of, like, there are some men that should be have been on or not, but I digress on that. But the fact that, you know, it it affects everyone differently, which is kinda interesting to say.

Andrew [00:10:53]:

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And it just it was they I listened to them talking about their experiences. I listened to them talking about The way that they had moved away from what the gurus and experts had been telling them to do and how they had grown their businesses Successfully, but with a focus on sustainability and with a much more human, face to their marketing.

Seth [00:11:24]:

Yeah. So

Andrew [00:11:25]:

a much more human networking, Giving peep providing value to people Mhmm. So that they are building people up, and they’re only kind of selling their products or services is when people are actually ready for them, when they’re actually ready to benefit from them. And that Totally. That revolutionized My approach to building my own business

Seth [00:11:49]:

Mhmm.

Andrew [00:11:49]:

And it was only then that I started to see success for myself. Yeah.

Seth [00:11:54]:

I I asked to look in your website. You know, it’s a very simple website. I like that you used the deluxe the select font, which is very handy. I mean, to me, it’s actually it’s kinda ironic to me. It’s actually hard to read because I’m not just that sick. But, you know, it’s not that hard to read. It’s just, like, woah. I know.

Seth [00:12:10]:

I’m luckily because I’m a web designer. I understand font that isn’t like, well, he’s not just trying to be cute. He’s trying to be accessible, which is a good idea. But one thing I like about your site is that you you don’t claim to have all the time in the world. You say you have a wait list. Just, like, I’ll get back to you right away and let you know when I can pick up the time. So you know you need to pace yourself

Andrew [00:12:29]:

to not

Seth [00:12:30]:

get overwhelmed, not to get anxious, and all that stuff. And you you make it perfectly clear, look, the wait list might be 2 days, But there’s still I want to prepare my potential clients, my visitors, that I pace things out. And I think setting expectations is It’s kinda key when it comes to anything. Even even neurotypical world, they you know, it’s not done enough where expectations are set. Like, this is what needs to be done when.

Andrew [00:12:56]:

Yes. Yeah. Exactly.

Seth [00:12:57]:

I love that. So moving along, what so so have you you’ve done the You’ve done the, you know, the plebe world, the you know, when you work for someone else, I’m sure. Right? Yes. So what’s the best thing about being an entrepreneur in your mind?

Andrew [00:13:15]:

Like, this

Seth [00:13:15]:

is to be obvious. Yeah.

Andrew [00:13:17]:

Best thing for me is that I never really like a lot of neurodiverse people, I never really felt like I fitted in. Mhmm. And as a result of that, the the office was never a comfort a completely comfortable space for me to be in. Absolutely. And I did suffer workplace bullying on more than one occasion. That’s And I think that’s tough for neurotypicals, but I think it’s especially tough for neurodiverse people because we tend to take Internalize everything. Yeah. Internalize everything.

Andrew [00:14:03]:

And the problem, We view the problem as ourselves rather than the situation.

Seth [00:14:11]:

Or the other perk of being a schmuck, honestly.

Andrew [00:14:13]:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, there’s no excuse for bully there’s no excuse for bullying anybody. Yeah. But being on the receiving end of it when you are when you already have to agree vulnerabilities, it’s probably even more painful than, than than if you’re If you don’t have those vulnerabilities at do it. Yeah.

Andrew [00:14:42]:

But I the best thing really is now I get to pick and choose who I work with.

Seth [00:14:51]:

That’s very nice. Yeah. Mhmm. And

Andrew [00:14:55]:

I can genuinely help the people that that I feel I can serve best and help people who are like me because, I mean, there’s no there’s there’s no there’s no It’s no coincidence that I picked De Neurodivergent Copywriter as a as a name. It’s because I want to work with people who are like me, who are going on that same journey, but I want to make that journey for them shorter and less painful than it was for me.

Seth [00:15:33]:

That’s fantastic. I mean and and it’s huge. So when I went on the flip side, what keeps you up at night?

Andrew [00:15:39]:

What keeps me up at night? There not being enough hours in the day.

Seth [00:15:44]:

Oh my god. That’s a good one because yeah. It’s so true. It’s like, you know, Even with a wait list, I’m sure that it’s like, oh my god. I have to get this done. I have to get this done. I have to get this done. And the anxiety kicks in.

Seth [00:15:53]:

I’m having anxiety, and it kicks And then it’s like, oh my god. It’s not it’s everything’s gonna go to go to shit. And it never does. If you realize that when we think our brains think that everything’s gonna go to shit, it never does. Because the shit we don’t think it when things aren’t gonna go to shit. That’s what happened.

Andrew [00:16:11]:

Yeah. It’s when you it’s I think it’s when you’re overconfident that you lose the run of things, and that’s when you make a mess. That Absolutely.

Seth [00:16:20]:

Yeah.

Andrew [00:16:22]:

As I there are there there’s a silver cloud there’s a silver lining to every Cloud and whilst Yeah. I would say that anxiety is a very, very, very great dark Cloud, for the most part, one positive of it is it keeps you on the ball.

Seth [00:16:42]:

It does because you don’t wanna experience it. You you wanna you know, that and, you know, you know, and you always think you’re behind the ball and you’re not. You’re actually ahead of it a lot of times. So so what is the most important thing to carry with you all the time?

Andrew [00:16:58]:

Do you mean item of, as a I think it can

Seth [00:17:01]:

be values. It can be as you can go as deep as you want. You can go as surfaces as you want. You can go both ways, any which way.

Andrew [00:17:08]:

I think the biggest lesson that I’ve learned is to focus on sustainability Oh, yeah. Rather than sort of driving yourself

Seth [00:17:21]:

Mhmm.

Andrew [00:17:22]:

Into poor mental health, chasing the the sort of fantastical dreams that that that that are sold. That that are used basically to sell courses and, programs. You know? Absolutely. And I think and it’s something that I it’s something that I help businesses and business people that I work with Focus on sustainability. Focus on the concept that you know that you’re gonna be here next Yeah. You’re gonna be here in 5 years’ time. Yes. You grow as you do that, and it’s important to have ambition.

Andrew [00:18:05]:

But you want to you you want to know where your next contract is coming from, where your next job is coming from, You know, rather than this kind of boom I call it a boom and bust cycle because I see the I see that sort of achy sales strategies, and people get clients quickly from them, but they tend to burn those clients.

Seth [00:18:30]:

And then or the client push mops or the clients are the worst because you’re rushing to get them, and you’re not vetting them correctly. It’s it’s, it’s happened to me plenty of times, buddy. Plenty of times. Yeah. And this is a boom and bust. So definitely so where can people find you online, Andrew? Where’s where’s your order and hall of choice?

Andrew [00:18:47]:

Yeah. My website is www.andrewmcdonaldmcd0mald.bizbiz. That’s the best place to find me, and I also have, I’ve written a free Bob, that’s basically a guide to building a marketing outreach campaign As a neurodivergent entrepreneur, I unlike the gurus and experts, I don’t claim that it’s a silver bullet. Yeah. It it’s an it’s it’s an idea. It’s it’s ideas, and it’s ideas that I found useful for me. And And

Seth [00:19:29]:

it’s free, so go get it. Yeah.

Andrew [00:19:31]:

And that that is at the website that I just read out then. Use that URL forward slash book.

Seth [00:19:41]:

Oh, very easy. Easy to remember. We’ll put it on the show notes in case you’re driving or whatever. And Yeah. Don’t swerve, people. Don’t swerve. We’ll have in the show notes. Absolutely.

Seth [00:19:50]:

And you’re, of course, on on LinkedIn as well. So that’s, like, I guess, your social media choice.

Andrew [00:19:55]:

Yeah. If you fight if you look for Andrew McDonald and then you find the neurodivergent copywriter, that’s me.

Seth [00:20:03]:

That’s him. Absolutely. And, also, he has very cute pictures of bull of of, pit bulls on his website. So go check it out. Well, Andrew, this has been so much fun. I’m so glad we got to connect via Claire’s, event. I’m glad I got got get you on the show, and we’ll see everyone next time.

Andrew [00:20:22]:

Thanks so much, Seth.

Seth [00:20:23]:

That was a great show. If you’re enjoying Entrepreneur’s Enigma, please view us in the podcast directory of your choice. Every review helps other podcast listeners find our show. If you’re looking for other podcasts in the marketing space, with no further than the Marketing Podcast Network at marketingpodcasts.net. Gold’s theme, I hope you have enjoyed this episode.