John Lester is on a mission to transform limiting mindsets that hold back salespeople and small business owners. Having built his career helping companies big and small drive revenue through coaching and training, John knows that tech stacks, skills and product knowledge are ineffective without the right sales psychology. His goal is to help sellers and solopreneurs reframe sales as mutually beneficial versus oppositional through personal insights and practical coaching.

Key Moments

[05:21] Desire for simple, happy lifestyle in America.

[07:44] An influential article shaped my perspective on businesses.

[12:35] Questioning integrity in sales, relationship dynamics critical.

[13:36] Concern about re-entering corporate America after layoffs.

[19:13] Helping others sell, sharing expertise through video.

[22:51] Teacher contacts for innovative aquarium project collaboration.

[24:53] Self-assessment and clarity before seeking advice.

[28:16] Reflect on actions and values, especially with children.

Find John Online

https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnlester973/

https://attitudeselling.com

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Follow Seth Online:

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Transcript Provided By CastMagic.io

Seth [00:00:00]:
Entrepreneur’s Enigma is a podcast for the ups and downs of entrepreneurship to the wins and the fails that we all face being entrepreneurs, how we learn from adversity. Every week I talk to a different entrepreneur with a story to tell. I’m Seth Goldstein. Come with me on the journey. This is Entrepreneurs Enigma. Let’s get started. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Entrepreneur’s Enigma podcast.

Seth [00:00:34]:
I am always and still Seth, your host. And today I have Jon Lester of attitude altitude selling. You guys screw me up because you have mountains on your website, so I think altitude, but it’s attitude. It’s clever, though. I like the attitude selling.

John [00:00:54]:
I like how you put that.

Seth [00:00:56]:
But I was like, why am I getting stuck on this? So you’re helping struggling organizations and salespeople become sustainable revenue creators.

John [00:01:04]:
Correct.

Seth [00:01:05]:
Now I love that because everyone needs to figure out how to generate revenue. And it’s not not just a matter of getting business, putting money into your business, growing your business. But if you’re not creating revenue, you’re not investing back into your business, you’re not investing in yourself. And so you help people do that. So what’s your what’s your background? How did you find your way into coaching?

John [00:01:31]:
It’s it’s interesting. I I remember, in high school and and this is Oh, wow.

Seth [00:01:37]:
We’re we’re going way back.

John [00:01:38]:
Going way back. And and this is kinda fascinating the more I thought of it over the years. I think in my entire education, I’ve had 5 or 6 teachers that made a mark on me.

Seth [00:01:50]:
That’s a lot. For most people, there’s that 1 4th grade teacher. You’ve had 5.

John [00:01:54]:
And I’ve had 5. And and I I and make this so people understand that I’ve been through this experience and and haven’t had to go through shock therapy because of it. I started out in in Catholic high school.

Seth [00:02:04]:
Oh, God help you.

John [00:02:05]:
Oh, no. It was wonderful. It was a Jesuit, so I absolutely loved it.

Seth [00:02:08]:
Oh, yeah.

John [00:02:08]:
I absolutely loved it. And I couldn’t do it for a whole lot of reasons just because of the travel time. So so I got transferred into public high school and found these 3 amazing teachers in in public high school. And I realized the change that they were making in me, and I said, wow. I wanna be a teacher.

Seth [00:02:26]:
Oh, wow.

John [00:02:27]:
Because these people would just I mean, they were exploding my mind at that at that age and that level. And I said, this is really cool because I’d I mean, I didn’t wake up like a lot of people do or few people do and say, oh, I wanna be a nuclear scientist. I wanna be a neurosurgeon. I I just didn’t do that. Yeah. I realized I couldn’t be a cowboy living on Long Island. I realized, okay, I’m gonna gotta pick something else. Mhmm.

John [00:02:48]:
And and then the the strange part was that to kinda keep this short, I remember getting the, the daily news one morning, and and the headline across it was New York City lays off 60,000 teachers. I believe that was headline. Could maybe it was something different.

Seth [00:03:02]:
So a lot of teachers. Yeah.

John [00:03:04]:
Yeah. And and so I realized, hey. Maybe this this dream isn’t isn’t really what it should be. One thing leads to another. I wind up getting into sales. I I wind up not even teaching. I I do a bunch of stuff. But I realized that during my time, I’m always trying to help other salespeople.

John [00:03:20]:
I’m always trying to explain. I I remember one one sales guy’s one of the best sales guys I ever met, he couldn’t get his head around the product that we were trying to sell. So I had to teach him how to sell the product.

Seth [00:03:30]:
Oy. Now that’s

John [00:03:31]:
this is a this is a whole important piece of this notion of how to how to help businesses. And over time, I started to realize, you know, do I like to sell? I love to sell, but I love to sell from the from perspective of helping people.

Seth [00:03:46]:
Mhmm.

John [00:03:47]:
I would get the commission checks and they go, that’s great. Who else I’m gonna help today? As opposed to going,

Seth [00:03:52]:
oh, wow.

John [00:03:52]:
I got the commission check. Got the commission check. Alright? But I also realized that the the more I help people, the better I help people, the better able I’m able to relive one experience. That’s how you live one experience. So commission check comes in the mail. I’m sitting in my house in Jersey City, and I look at the commission check and I look at my mortgage statement, and I realized that I can swap them. Stroke of a pen, I can pay off my entire mortgage.

Seth [00:04:20]:
Nice.

John [00:04:21]:
Yeah. Well, that’s when when you when when things are right in sales, I don’t think there’s a better job in the world.

Seth [00:04:29]:
Oh, yeah.

John [00:04:30]:
But you have to make

Seth [00:04:32]:
Everyone’s happy. The customers are happy. The company’s happy. And because the company’s happy, you’re happy because they’re com hopefully, they’re accomplishing you correctly.

John [00:04:40]:
So bring us back real fast

Seth [00:04:42]:
to prove it. Yeah.

John [00:04:43]:
What what happened? And I’ve been I’ve been very successful in sales, especially large account sales. Fortune 2,000 type accounts selling primarily financial services firms, technology. Getting them to understand technology, getting them to understand how the technology is gonna help achieve their problems. Yeah. So COVID shows up, and I’m sitting thinking about COVID, and and a lot of it afterwards, and realize that, you know, 90 95% or so and and Seth, this is just numbers out of my head, so I don’t want any of your listeners calling up and going

Seth [00:05:15]:
Don’t write these down. Don’t write these down. This is a

John [00:05:16]:
little bit of a tight fit.

Seth [00:05:17]:
We’re gonna take a quick break, hear from our sponsors, and get right back to the show.

John [00:05:21]:
Yeah. It’s just it’s the concept, that 95% of people in this country, because I’m not gonna speak for anybody else, really don’t want a lot. Alright? We wanna be able to get up in the morning, hug the kids, hug your wife, get some breakfast, go to work, have a reasonably decent job, have a little bit of respect, have some good people, go home, grab a beer on the way home, come home, play with the kids, hug your wife, go to bed, and do it all over again. We don’t really want a whole lot. And, you know, for all the gurus out there that are telling telling everybody, oh, you’ve gotta be self actualized. You gotta do screw it. Most people just want a happy lifestyle.

Seth [00:05:56]:
Yeah.

John [00:05:57]:
That’s all. Okay? But because of that mindset, what they don’t do is they don’t really spend time and energy understanding, are they adequately equipped to be in the top 20% of what they do? Because the top 20% in any business don’t look for a job ever.

Seth [00:06:12]:
Yeah. They don’t. They get either they don’t leave, and they’re happy where they are, or they get handed the next opportunity.

John [00:06:18]:
Well, they get poached. Yeah. Okay? So what what happens in COVID was a lot of people like that who just wanna come home and hug the kids got dropped from jobs because the business couldn’t sustain itself. And the reason the business couldn’t sustain itself was because it didn’t have a optimized sales process. Boy.

Seth [00:06:40]:
Yeah. Now Makes sense.

John [00:06:41]:
Some businesses could not survive. The cruise ships could not survive.

Seth [00:06:46]:
Honestly, did you see what happened during COVID? How because they were stuck in the harbor with people with COVID. That was a that was a disaster.

John [00:06:52]:
Oh, yeah. But but also look at look at all of the associated businesses and services, like all the catering, all the cleaning, all of these kinds of things. All of these businesses went down. But if you really looked, a number of businesses figured out what their core assets really looked like, and they were able to shift the business. Mhmm. So if anybody’s interested. If anybody’s interested in this topic, I’ll I’ll I’ll give everybody a hint. This you can write down.

John [00:07:18]:
Look up a a essay, because it’s only an essay. It’s not a book Wow. By a fellow by the name of Theodore Levitt.

Seth [00:07:25]:
Oh, I’ve heard of this guy. Yeah.

John [00:07:27]:
And the name of the article is Marketing Myopia. And it was written in the sixties. And it is So it’s

Seth [00:07:35]:
a little dry?

John [00:07:37]:
It was yeah. But it was

Seth [00:07:39]:
It’s a little anytime you say written in the sixties, like, and the rain was a little dry. But it’s probably really good. So It’s

John [00:07:44]:
really good. It’s still to me today one of the most significant articles I’ve ever read, and it shaped my thinking considerably. So I said, look, what am I gonna do with this? So I I started down 2 paths. And I said, one, the problem with businesses as I see it and, again, this is only my perspective, is that if you think of from the time of prospect interest to customer raving fan, if you think about that continuum, it’s a big continuum. Okay? What are all the steps that have to happen and our businesses completely aligned in an efficient and effective fashion in order to go from that all the way through. Or do businesses Yeah. Do they say something in their marketing that’s different than what their salesperson says? Does the salesperson say something different than what the implementation person says?

Seth [00:08:35]:
Yeah. Alignment is everything. It’s everything.

John [00:08:39]:
So If you’re not

Seth [00:08:39]:
aligned and your salesperson says one thing and you’re doing another thing, it’s like customer’s like, what the f?

John [00:08:45]:
Well, here’s here’s the interesting part, Seth, that that makes this so fascinating to me is we we used to we used to believe, and a lot of people still do, that people buy products and services. They don’t. They buy the results. They buy the results of those products and services in the achievement of their personal motivation.

Seth [00:09:09]:
Oh, wow. Yeah.

John [00:09:11]:
Okay? Now anytime when you consider all of the stuff that’s thrown at people on a daily basis, I mean, I don’t care who you read, who you listen

Seth [00:09:28]:
60 is enough for me, but 50, 60,000 is

John [00:09:31]:
Right. That stuff that comes into our brain. So

Seth [00:09:33]:
Oh, god.

John [00:09:34]:
That coupled with

Seth [00:09:35]:
I have more. I’m ADHD. I have more.

John [00:09:37]:
So you yeah. Okay. So now you’ve got all of that coming in. As soon as that flow of I’m trying to solve this problem, should I solve it with Seth? As soon as that flow gets interrupted, it forces the conscious and the subconscious to go, wait a minute. Maybe I shouldn’t do business with him. So if you think about from the time of customer interest all the way to raving fan, how many times have these organizations breaking that thinking pattern?

Seth [00:10:08]:
Yeah. Never thought of it that way. Yeah. That’s deep, man.

John [00:10:14]:
The salesperson side, the individuals, because I really relate to the individuals because we’re gonna go 2 steps on this real fast. The individuals. So you and your mom and your dad, you’re 4 years old, you’re 5 years old, your mom and your dad decide they gotta go look at a car. They walk into the dealership with you in tow. You’re like, oh, wow. Pretty lights. This is cool, man. I like it.

John [00:10:36]:
Look, this is nice cherry red. Salesperson comes over and makes some kind of wise ass comment. Father says, yeah. We’re just looking around for the moment. We’ll get back to you. Salesperson turns and leaves. Mom looks at your dad and goes, you can’t trust that guy, he’s

Seth [00:10:55]:
a salesman. Those words go

John [00:10:57]:
into the 4 and a half year old subconscious.

Seth [00:11:00]:
Yeah. And from then on, you know, car dealership dealer people are not

John [00:11:04]:
But nobody what what he said what what you, your 4 and a half year old self said was salespeople. Now that message Oh, not even

Seth [00:11:12]:
the fact that it’s car dealerships salespeople, it’s salespeople in general.

John [00:11:17]:
So now that message gets reinforced through the media, through other situations, it’s a real estate, to anybody. It gets reinforced. And now here you are. You’re 27 years

Seth [00:11:27]:
old. And it’s not true.

John [00:11:29]:
Well, exactly.

Seth [00:11:30]:
Oh, sometimes it’s true.

John [00:11:32]:
But understand No. Your subconscious doesn’t what was it? Bottom of the 9th inning, 2 outs, batter gets up, bases are loaded, he can hit a grand slam and the game’s gonna be over in their favor. The coach walks up to the pitcher on the mound and says, whatever you do, don’t throw low and on the inside. What do you think is subconscious hurt?

Seth [00:12:06]:
Enlighten me.

John [00:12:07]:
Throw low and in the inside, and that’s exactly what he did.

Seth [00:12:12]:
Oh, no. He missed the don’t.

John [00:12:15]:
The subconscious can’t hear the don’t. So now you’re 27, you’re 28, you’re 29 years old and you go, I gotta make some money, you know, but this girl is really nice. I’m gonna get serious. I wanna marry her. We’re gonna have to buy a car. We’re gonna have kids, blah blah blah blah blah. Oh, I can get a job as a salesperson. You go out to go and sell, and your subconscious says, wait a minute, Seth.

John [00:12:35]:
Hey, Seth. You’re an honorable person. How can you be a salesperson when a salesperson’s scummy and you’re not? And people wonder why they have trouble selling. Mhmm. So there’s this whole relationship in your brain about what you think of sales relative to yourself. There’s a relationship with what do you think about sales relative to your prospect. And there’s all sorts of things people think about prospects. What’s that relationship to your product or your service? And and what’s just some some really interesting markers out in the business world that if you understand, sales would be much much easier.

Seth [00:13:14]:
Absolutely.

John [00:13:15]:
And then the wave comes. And then the wave comes. And now we’ve seen in the past 18 months more white collar layoffs than we’ve ever seen in the history of the United States.

Seth [00:13:27]:
I know.

John [00:13:28]:
And for the first time, the vast majority of layoffs are white collar, not blue collar. Because you and I lived through the blue collar layoffs.

Seth [00:13:35]:
Yeah.

John [00:13:36]:
Now it’s the white collar. So what happened? It’s a shock. Yeah. What’s really fascinating. So take the story of the of the of the sales of the kid, the salesperson. What happens now? Somebody’s been working for Google or for Yahoo or for LinkedIn or any of these companies, it doesn’t really matter, 20, 30, 40 years. And they go, I can’t go back to corporate America. 1, I’ve been screwed, and 2, they’re not gonna hire me back.

John [00:14:00]:
Alright? Mhmm. I think I’m gonna go hang a shingle cause I have all the subject matter expertise and I can bring great changes to people. And they take this technical subject matter, rational, logical, objective stuff, and they walk into you and talk about it. And you go, let me get back to you because they never made the personal connection. Because they don’t understand that sales is an emotional game. It’s a trust Oh,

Seth [00:14:26]:
it is.

John [00:14:27]:
But people don’t people come out of corporate have never been trained.

Seth [00:14:31]:
And so that’s where you come in.

John [00:14:33]:
That’s where I come in.

Seth [00:14:34]:
Because you’ve done the corporate.

John [00:14:37]:
I understand what it takes to buy and I understand what it takes to sell.

Seth [00:14:40]:
That’s that’s good. Yeah. So so that goes to to the other question I was gonna ask you is what sets you apart from the plethora of coaches out there? Because like web designers, you’re a dime a dozen. Like, you have to kinda say what what makes John special. Yeah. And you kind of highlighted that that you know what’s on both sides of the sales process.

John [00:14:59]:
I’ve also So you also know.

Seth [00:15:00]:
Know why it goes into being a salesperson and being a light salesperson.

John [00:15:04]:
I also know what it what it goes into being a failure as a salesperson. Because I’ve been I’ve been in wrong situations, bad situations. I failed. Look, I’ll admit it. I failed. Yeah. Okay.

Seth [00:15:17]:
Nothing wrong with failure. Nothing wrong with failure. It’s a chance to learn.

John [00:15:20]:
But when you grow up in the world of technology, the turnover in technology as we got into the 2000 just accelerated insanely.

Seth [00:15:28]:
Honestly, the the technology itself has accelerated in the past 3 weeks faster than it’s done in 3 years.

John [00:15:34]:
Correct.

Seth [00:15:35]:
Correct. Blink and it’s like AI this. And I’m like, woah. Slow down.

John [00:15:38]:
Right. So I understand where where the failures occur and why the failures occur. I also understand what the successes look like.

Seth [00:15:48]:
Yeah.

John [00:15:48]:
And 90% of it has to do with what goes on between their ears. So as Zig Ziglar used to say, you gotta get a checkup from the neck up.

Seth [00:15:58]:
Love that. Yeah. Absolutely. I I can relate to this because I was a journalist for 6 years, then left that. And then I went into sales, and I and I I saw I worked for Mobile Mini. Mhmm. Not a bad company, but they, you know, they sell Connex boxes, big construction boxes with the TriCam locking system to construction sites. Right.

Seth [00:16:17]:
Honestly, take a forklift to the side of the sucker. You can still get in just as fine and bypass the whole locking system. Don’t tell your clients that. Can take a sledgehammer to the side of the corrugated steel. You can still get the stuff out of there. But that’s the point. Yeah. But I realized I was no good at it because, you know, I wasn’t selling something I believed in.

Seth [00:16:34]:
I that that’s I didn’t believe in, but not nothing I was passionate about. So fast forward 3 years, 2008 banking crisis, you know, started hung my shingle. And I’m sitting there, I’m I’m doing web design and all that and I’m like, well, I’m halfway decent at this. You know, why? Because I liked what I sold. I believed in what I sold.

John [00:16:55]:
Right.

Seth [00:16:56]:
I wanted to help people with what I sold and what I did. And that was the whole difference.

John [00:17:02]:
That’s the whole difference.

Seth [00:17:02]:
16 years later, I’m still doing it.

John [00:17:04]:
Right. Yeah. No. I I used to when I years ago, I used to sell technology because I love technology. It fascinates me. It fascinates me what you could do with it. And I was selling some fun technology. I mean, you and I right now run video conferencing.

John [00:17:18]:
That’s what we’re on. That’s what the technology is known as. Mhmm. I was selling video conferencing in the early nineties when we got for each endpoint, 6 figures. Six figures.

Seth [00:17:31]:
Oh, but you gotta think about back then. I mean, it wasn’t a commodity back then. I mean It was

John [00:17:35]:
a commodity. But but the the amazing results I got because people for the first time saw people that they had only been, you know, emailing or writing letters to and talked on the phone. I mean, it was just it was so much fun for me because I could take the thing and make it fun. And I got I got really, really sick one time. I mean, extraordinarily sick to the point where the doctor had no idea what’s wrong with me. And it’s the end of the quarter. I mean, I’ve got I’ve got blood result numbers that are out by a 1000 times Yikes. Tracking through my body.

John [00:18:09]:
Nobody could understand what was wrong with me. I’m I basically had to peel my wife had to peel me off the sofa to get me to the doctor every day. And my boss is calling me up going, well, you know, I need those numbers. I need this. I need and and I’m flipping out because I don’t I don’t like to be in that position.

Seth [00:18:25]:
I

John [00:18:26]:
like to do my job. And I and it was really it was it was an earth shattering moment, but an eye opening. And I said, well, what am I gonna do? I love selling technology. I said, but that’s not gonna work. So what are you gonna do? And I realized that what I really liked more than selling technology was helping peep helping people solve problems. And I said, fine. I’m gonna shift my focus and stop talking about sales and start talking about adding value.

Seth [00:18:51]:
Love it.

John [00:18:52]:
Because what I want is I want the smile on Seth’s face when he looks at me and he says, you know what? You helped me solve that problem.

Seth [00:18:59]:
Yeah. That that’s what sales is really about is you have a product that can solve a problem.

John [00:19:02]:
Supposed to be.

Seth [00:19:04]:
Supposed to be, at least. Yeah. Good point.

John [00:19:06]:
And the money comes, by the way.

Seth [00:19:08]:
Yeah.

John [00:19:08]:
I actually made more money when I made that choice.

Seth [00:19:11]:
Wow. That’s great.

John [00:19:13]:
Yeah. My best years were fell after that. It was just so what I’m what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to help people who really need to sell right now. There’s there’s a lot of these subject matter expertise, the solopreneurs that are coming out and they I don’t wanna sell. You know, I I just I I have to tell you this because you get a kick out of this. Yeah. So I run a for another organization, I I have office hours every Monday at at 3 o’clock. And and basically, I I come on to a video link, and anybody that wants to come on just comes on.

John [00:19:40]:
We talk sales. What problem what problem do you wanna solve? I had these I had these three phenomenal powerhouse females on the call. All 3 high corporate, high titles, phenomenal experience, great certifications. I said, let me go around the room. Let me ask everybody a question, if I may. What value do you bring to the prospect? Not one of them could answer it. Wow. Not one of them could answer it.

Seth [00:20:16]:
That’s that’s as intense.

John [00:20:19]:
Yeah. It’s

Seth [00:20:21]:
like, it’s wild. That’s incredible. And they’re high powered boss women that, you know, have made it this far and they’re like,

John [00:20:34]:
what? But they made it. They made, they made it in the jungle. Now we’re in the desert.

Seth [00:20:38]:
Wow. Yeah. Still sensational. Time to pivot?

John [00:20:42]:
Yeah. Time to pivot.

Seth [00:20:44]:
So here’s a question for you.

John [00:20:45]:
Sure.

Seth [00:20:47]:
You’ve done the sales for corporate. You’ve done tech sales. You’ve done the Fortune 200. All that stuff. What’s the best thing about being on your own as an entrepreneur?

John [00:20:59]:
I get well, actually, I shouldn’t say this. I have a very, very, very different perspective than than everybody else. And everybody right now is saying, oh, you can’t work for the man. You can’t work for corporate. You can’t do this. Can’t do that. Let me tell you something, folks, ladies and gentlemen, all my trips to Hawaii, all the free money, all the first class accommodations of Four Seasons Hotels were all paid for by large corporations.

Seth [00:21:23]:
Mhmm.

John [00:21:23]:
Okay? I live in arguably one of the top 10 towns in the state of New Jersey. Okay? The garage is full. Right? My wife doesn’t want for anything. And I don’t care if it’s clothes or jewelry, whatever. I love her dearly. And if I can do anything to help get her what she wants, all of that occurred because I worked for a corporation.

Seth [00:21:46]:
Mhmm.

John [00:21:46]:
Here’s the secret. When you’re blowing your number out and you’re one of the top five people, when you’re contributing over $5,000,000 a year to an organization, you don’t have the problems that everybody complains about.

Seth [00:22:00]:
That’s so true.

John [00:22:01]:
So I can’t sit here true. And bash corporations Because I’ve also royally screwed over by 3 person companies and 2 person companies.

Seth [00:22:10]:
I find that you get screwed over more you’re more a number of them with a corporation, but they unscrew you over per se. You’re just a number some a lot of the time. Whereas when you’re when it’s 2 or 3 people screwing you over, it’s personal. Yeah. And if they don’t want it to be personal, it’s personal. Or it hurts like it’s personal.

John [00:22:30]:
So I I will tell you this one story because because to me, this is this is very important.

Seth [00:22:34]:
Yeah.

John [00:22:35]:
So back in in in the early nineties, as you said, when I was selling video conferencing, we were still trying to get uptake on on the technology because it you know, 66 figures per endpoint and you had to have 2 endpoints. You’re going into corporation ask for quarter $1,000,000 before you start.

Seth [00:22:51]:
Yeah.

John [00:22:51]:
Okay? And I don’t know how or why, but, a New York City public school teacher got in touch with me and she said, hey, look, you know, I’m trying to do I’m trying to do a project. Maybe you can help me. And I said, what? And and what was going on was that we had in order to demonstrate this, you had to have the second point. And you had to have a second point that was always available when you wanted to do a demonstration to a prospect. So we had found out that there was a facility. It was an aquarium down in Florida that had a shark tank, and they had the camera on the shark tank. And and with with the video systems as they were set up, if you called, the system would answer regardless if there was somebody there.

Seth [00:23:29]:
It’s Yeah.

John [00:23:29]:
The way they were set up. So we could call the fish tank in Florida and show somebody what it looked like, what the video quality looked like because you had movement in, etcetera. And they were happy to let us do that. So she calls up and she goes, I’ve got all of these little kids and we’re gonna do a campout under the great whale at the Museum of Natural History. And if you don’t anybody doesn’t understand, it’s a life size replica of a great whale.

Seth [00:24:00]:
Which is a big ass whale.

John [00:24:01]:
It’s a big ass whale. And it’s suspended from the ceiling, and she’s bringing in all of these kids underneath, and they were all gonna camp out overnight underneath the whale.

Seth [00:24:11]:
That’s awesome.

John [00:24:12]:
She said, could you bring video and could we turn it onto the shark tank? Now most people go through layers upon layers upon layers. Can I, do this with the system? Dude, I was one of the top sales guys. I’m like, Here’s what we’re doing. They’re like, Okay.

Seth [00:24:29]:
Yeah. Because you bring the results. You bring the results. It’s good p and it’s good PR, and they trust you. Right. So if anything, you’re almost like a intrapreneur in the company because you are doing your thing. So to go back to the question, you you’ve done the best thing about being entrepreneur inside the corporation. Now what is the best thing now you’re out and helping other people figure stuff out?

John [00:24:53]:
Because now if I ask a question that says, what am I trying to accomplish? What am I trying to accomplish it? Are you telling me the truth? I ask that of myself. And excuse my French, but I don’t get some kind of BS answer from somebody who doesn’t even understand the question or wanna understand the question. It’s amazing how many people I’ve spoken to and I said, okay. Let’s you know, business owners. And I said, let me ask you the first question. I said, what is your exit strategy? 85% have no idea what I’m asking.

Seth [00:25:24]:
I’m included. Yeah. How

John [00:25:26]:
do you how do you make strategic decisions if you don’t know what your exit strategy is?

Seth [00:25:30]:
That’s very true.

John [00:25:32]:
I said, what are your values? That’s like speaking Russian to most people.

Seth [00:25:38]:
They don’t sit down and think about it first.

John [00:25:41]:
Right. That’s my point.

Seth [00:25:43]:
Values I can give you, extra strategy I can’t. Because my opinion with my business is that I’ll I’ll do it till the day I die.

John [00:25:50]:
But that’s your exit strategy.

Seth [00:25:52]:
I die.

John [00:25:53]:
You die. But you know what’s gonna happen to the business when you die. Yeah. Either it’s gonna get, you know, held in trust, it’s gonna be given away, it’s gonna crumble, whatever the case might be. But at least you understand that. At least that’s a decision.

Seth [00:26:06]:
Yeah. That’s true.

John [00:26:07]:
Okay. So so you don’t know so you say, oh, I’m gonna I’m gonna grow this company forever because I’m really proud of it. I like it fine. If somebody walks in the door and gives you a $100,000,000, what are you gonna do? I’ll sell it. Well, then you haven’t gone through your exit strategy.

Seth [00:26:21]:
Uh-huh.

John [00:26:22]:
Then how do you set up how do you set up a strategic plan? How do you know how long you should be making decisions for?

Seth [00:26:28]:
Mhmm.

John [00:26:29]:
And the same thing holds true when we start to talk about what is your marketing message saying to your prospect? Is that carried through to sales? What are you trying to convey? Are you trying to convey trust? Are you trying to I mean, there’s so many little factors that actually don’t take that long to think about.

Seth [00:26:46]:
It doesn’t. It’s just you just have to realize you have to think about it.

John [00:26:49]:
Yeah. And that’s what I try to do is to help people think about it.

Seth [00:26:52]:
You know? Hey, wait. Have you thought about this? No. I didn’t know how to think about it. That kind of thing. Yeah. So on the flip side, because before the call, I asked you how business was going. You’re like, it’s a little slow right now for x next external circumstances and whatnot. What keeps you up at night as an entrepreneur?

John [00:27:09]:
The the only Or

Seth [00:27:10]:
does nothing keep you up because you sleep very well?

John [00:27:12]:
I I I from from this perspective, I sleep pretty well. I’m always curious about, how am I coming across? What kind of a mark am I gonna make? You get to a certain point in your life and you start to think about, you know, how long am I gonna be spoken about after I’m gone?

Seth [00:27:30]:
Your legacy. Yeah.

John [00:27:31]:
Well, because there’s there’s, you know, there there are 2 times you there are 2 times you die. One is when you physically die, and the second is when the when the last person says their says your name for the last time.

Seth [00:27:43]:
Mhmm.

John [00:27:43]:
How long does that second time last? And then there’s the real one that does keep me up and this is the definition of death. The definition of death that I’m using is, when the person you are meets the person you could have become.

Seth [00:28:01]:
Oh, yeah. But then you also gotta look at that and say, well, you can’t sit there and regret. You just gotta keep, you know, because then you’re thinking about what you could have become is kind of looking back. Well, well, what did you become? That kind of thing.

John [00:28:16]:
Well, but it’s, but it says, you know, it it and to me, it’s the same as the parable of of of the, you know, of the 3 servants and the 10 talents. Yeah. What are you doing with your life? Are you are you in tune to what you’re trying to accomplish and to your goals? Are you in tune with your values? Are you practicing those? Because we really should be thinking about that every day. Especially if you got kids.

Seth [00:28:40]:
Oh, God. Yeah. I have a kid upstairs. He’s currently sick right now. So when this podcast comes out, he won’t be sick. But, you know, viruses are abounding nowadays. So he’s 11 years old and, of course, he came home with a virus. So go figure.

Seth [00:28:52]:
So here’s here’s the big question. Sure. What is the most important thing to carry with you all the time? You can go as woo woo as you wanna go on this.

John [00:29:03]:
The what the way you react to life is all based on what’s up here, and you are the only one who has control of that. Mhmm.

Seth [00:29:15]:
You know,

John [00:29:15]:
it it was interesting. I just, just had had a a minor surgery yesterday, and, I’m sitting I’m sitting in the room waiting to go to surgery. And of course, you have to expect medicine is gonna run late. It just does because things happen.

Seth [00:29:30]:
Alright.

John [00:29:30]:
So so don’t worry about it. And I’m starting to feel myself get a little nervous and anxious and I start to feel myself going, come on, what is going on? And I said, woah, woah, stop. I said, I have the nerve to sit here on an elective You don’t

Seth [00:29:43]:
wanna rush, Don. You want them to take the damn time.

John [00:29:44]:
No. No. No. No. But I’m sitting here on an elective surgery Oh. Ukraine.

Seth [00:29:57]:
Mhmm.

John [00:29:57]:
Who the hell am I to think that?

Seth [00:30:00]:
That’s a good that’s a very good pause. And it brought you back down to earth saying, you know, alright. Another 10, 15. And then before you know it, you’re you’re out and you’re running home and you’re fine, you know?

John [00:30:10]:
You’re fine. So so what what I I’m trying to say to people now is, you know, we are we are being manipulated. We have been manipulated for quite a while on on both sides, however you wanna frame this. And I’m not gonna say one side is right and one side is wrong, but we are being manipulated. And the reason we’re being manipulated is because the more fanatic anybody is about any subject, the reality is the more money they spend in support of that subject. Mhmm. So this is all a money game.

Seth [00:30:40]:
Oh, I thought everything we knew was about to be the rule of all evil is money.

John [00:30:43]:
So so before you get all, you know, up in arms about subject x or subject y, stop and think a minute. What am I really getting upset about? Am I adding to the confusion or am I adding to the common sense? Mhmm. You’re either part of the problem or you’re part of the solution.

Seth [00:31:01]:
Amen.

John [00:31:01]:
Okay? So calm down, chill out, go hug somebody, and look at life again.

Seth [00:31:08]:
Love it.

John [00:31:09]:
That’s all.

Seth [00:31:12]:
So alright. So where can people find you online if they wanna get more of this wise wisdom from John Lester?

John [00:31:18]:
The one of the things I would suggest if they like, is go buy this on Amazon.

Seth [00:31:24]:
Yes. The winning the inner serve inner game of sale.

John [00:31:28]:
It is a 60 it was written as a 60 minute read.

Seth [00:31:32]:
Oh, I like that.

John [00:31:33]:
Okay. It’s not that long. There’s, some good common sense in there, which is really how I like to approach things. There’s some great quotes. I love quotes. Oh, yeah. Start from that perspective and then go check out the website, attitude selling dot com, and you’ll see

Seth [00:31:46]:
And admire and and admire the altitude of the mountains.

John [00:31:49]:
Altitude Yeah. It’s attitude selling. Attitude

Seth [00:31:51]:
selling. And look. It’s it’s troubling times. You need reach

John [00:31:53]:
out to me. We’ll chat. You’re very accessible. You’re We’ll chat.

Seth [00:32:00]:
You’re very accessible. Yeah.

John [00:32:01]:
You’re accessible.

Seth [00:32:02]:
You’re a good chattery. You’re a good kibitzer. So that’s a good thing.

John [00:32:05]:
Appreciate that.

Seth [00:32:05]:
John, this has been so much fun. We could go on for hours, I’m sure.

John [00:32:09]:
Yes.

Seth [00:32:10]:
But guess what?

John [00:32:11]:
So if you have my 1 question for you.

Seth [00:32:14]:
Oh, you have a question for me? Yay.

John [00:32:15]:
Guys gonna do about Jason? Kelsey.

Seth [00:32:19]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

John [00:32:22]:
Sorry, man.

Seth [00:32:22]:
Rub rub it rub it in. Rub it in. Sorry. But, you know, honestly, yeah, how many games did he do consecutively? The guy took deserves a break. And his younger brother, I that’s one thing I love about Jason is that he he’s like, yeah. We lost to the Kansas City Chiefs in the Super Bowl. This is coming from a guy who doesn’t really watch sportsball at all, but like still, like, you know, I appreciate a good game. But then even then, he hasn’t announced his retirement so for all intents and purposes he’s still an Eagle.

Seth [00:32:51]:
Or as we say down here an Eagle. Right. And he’s still like, screw this. I’m gonna go cheer on my brother. We we’re not playing right now. Rub his shirt off, cheers like a complete banshee, and that’s brotherly love right there. It just shows what kind of guy he is. Exactly.

Seth [00:33:06]:
That he’s a big Tay bear. He’ll he’ll fly coach and, you know, sign autographs all the time. I mean, he is the best part of Philly, in my opinion.

John [00:33:16]:
Besides the cheese steaks.

Seth [00:33:18]:
Yeah. You know, you tell us Sanders it’s the best cheese steaks, in my opinion. And I’ll fight people please please view us in the podcast directory of your choice. Every review helps other podcast listeners find our show. If you’re looking for other podcasts in the marketing space, look no further than the marketing podcast network at marketing podcasts.net. Gold steamingi. I hope you have enjoyed this episode.