Kim Coleman is co-founder of Stranger Studios, a creative team of 15 people that build open source technology and produce digital content to help people get paid. Our flagship product, Paid Memberships Pro, is used by over 90,000 WordPress sites to manage their members, protect premium content, and charge recurring subscriptions. Kim’s experience in product development and digital marketing refined a deep understanding of the stages in a business life cycle, from the seed of an idea to maturity and commercialization of the technology. She applies this knowledge by helping other entrepreneurs focus on the right problems at the right time.

Key Moments

[06:19] Balancing work and home life flexibly.

[07:04] Flexible work allows chores and personal time.

[10:41] Desire to travel, but tied to computer.

[14:57] Passionate commitment to open source over profit.

[17:07] Positive feedback on a free plug-in for channels.

Find Kim Online

https://www.paidmembershipspro.com

https://sitewidesales.com

https://www.strangerstudios.com

https://twitter.com/colemank83

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Podcast Provided By Castmagic.io

Seth [00:00:00]:

Entrepreneur’s Enigma is a podcast for the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, so the wins and the fails that we all face being entrepreneurs, how we learn from adversity. Every week, I talk to a different entrepreneur with a story to tell. I’m Seth Goldstein. Come with me on the journey. This is Entrepreneur’s Enigma. Let’s get started. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Entrepreneurs in the Name of podcast.

Seth [00:00:34]:

I am, as always, your host with the most I hate that. I gotta change it up somehow. Anyhow, host with the most is Seth. Today, I have a good buddy of mine, Kim Coleman, of Stranger Studios, a paid membership pro of I mean, more stuff than I think I even know about. She and her husband, Jason, are very big in the WordPress ecosystem, even so much so that, Jason yeah. I had some words with the Head honcho, the WordPress project, you know, and Mullen Wag. Actually, my my my went after Jason. Jason’s a big teddy bear.

Seth [00:01:05]:

And we all are like, don’t pick on Jason. He’s a big teddy bear. So that we’ll leave that one alone. But if you want it’s out there. So if you wanna figure out what the hell happened, Just Google it. It’s out there. It’s once you put stuff on the Internet, it’s out there. So let me bring Kim in here before I get, her more in trouble than we should here.

Kim [00:01:22]:

Not at all.

Seth [00:01:23]:

Going, Cam? How you doing?

Kim [00:01:25]:

It’s it’s good. I’m just here laughing through the intro because it was so fun setting up

Seth [00:01:28]:

the stage. And so you Work with your husband. God bless you. Seriously, my wife helps Meredith helps me with Goldstein Media, but she doesn’t work with me. You are partners in the business. You have been doing this for, what, 15, 16 years, something like that?

Kim [00:01:45]:

Yeah. I graduated college in 2006. So, yeah, 17 years Working together, paid memberships pro is in year 13. So

Seth [00:01:53]:

Wow. You haven’t killed each other yet?

Kim [00:01:55]:

Nope. We’ve had moments

Seth [00:01:57]:

It helps that he’s a big teddy bear. It helps that he’s a big teddy bear.

Kim [00:02:00]:

He’s good. He’s good.

Seth [00:02:02]:

I’m sure there’s moments when you’re, like, oh my god, I need a break. Hence the reason why you took a break and you went to Tibet.

Kim [00:02:08]:

Yes. Right? That was a great break.

Seth [00:02:10]:

And you got a break from him and the kids and all that and the doggies and all that. But But that’s, you know I mean, we’ll go back into that a little bit, like, you know, how that’s one of the things about entrepreneurs that, look, you can do eat, pray, love a little bit. As you said, you can go with your friend and say, I’m taking 3 weeks off and just gonna go golfing around Asia, for for crying out loud. I mean, that’s awesome. It’s a very it’s a very Kim Coleman thing to do, I think. It’s very, like, you’re kind of vibe. Like, I’m gonna go

Kim [00:02:38]:

Yes.

Seth [00:02:39]:

Exactly. So how does all get started? So you graduated college in 2006, and you just jumped right into it.

Kim [00:02:46]:

Yeah. Definitely. I Jason and I had been doing freelance website development. We were finding jobs on Craigslist, kind of taking any project we could. And he had graduated prior to me and had a job with a big consulting firm, Accenture. And when I graduated Oh

Seth [00:03:01]:

my god.

Kim [00:03:01]:

Yeah. We had a lot of projects lined up, And I had most of the skills myself and some weekend time from Jason to keep those projects going. I think I just looked at my life, and I was like, this is better than getting a Full time jobs, starting entry level, being at the bottom of the list of people, and it was really what I wanted to do because it touched on so many aspects Of what I enjoyed. Business, that was my major. Entrepreneurship was my minor. Creativity with the web development and design. So It fed all of those pieces of what I needed.

Seth [00:03:33]:

So you actually there was actually entrepreneurial classes in 2006, because there wasn’t anything like that at Delaware where I went In 2004, when I graduated, I was like, now it’s big. Now it’s, like, the thing.

Kim [00:03:44]:

Like, the top four I’m seeing Entrepreneurs classes, which I think

Seth [00:03:47]:

is awesome. That’s really something you wanna, like, always encourage. I mean, I feel like it’s a special breed of person that can that should do it. I think some of the classes and learning about it makes good employees so they understand what their bosses are going through, you know, that kind of thing. So

Kim [00:04:01]:

That’s true.

Seth [00:04:02]:

But so then as the fast forward, So you’re 15 17 years, and at, you’re 13 into it. You start paying membership pro, which is, like, one of the best in my at least in my humble opinion. Membership plugins for WordPress that that really helps you kind of, like, segment your site so that, like, this is for public consumption. These are people who wanna pay me something or out of a coupon code or what it took away a lock up your site in a strategic manner. And so what made you pivot from that? And then eventually, that’s all you do. Well, that’s not all you do, but, Jason has his hands in LMS now and all that, but, you know but that’s really your bread and butter is payment membership pro,

Kim [00:04:39]:

Absolutely.

Seth [00:04:39]:

Doing a lot of side stuff anymore, are you? We’re gonna take a quick break, hear from our sponsors, and get right back to the show.

Kim [00:04:46]:

Now the, the projects I was working on from 2006 up to, like well, Jason stopped his consulting job a few months after I graduated college. They let him take a 6 month sabbatical unpaid, and he said, like, can I just try this? Can I go full time? So he and I were full time on that. By the time, 2008, we had our 1st child, and we had some birth complications.

Seth [00:05:07]:

We

Kim [00:05:07]:

were still doing consulting and and all these things. My son was in the hospital. I was, like, Waiting for Jason to get off a call with a client, going to see my son in the NICU Yeah. And we were like, this has to change. Like, We wanted this type of freelance work so that our lives could be flexible. Here at the point in our life where we needed them to be the most flexible, we couldn’t be. So Yeah. Between 2008 and 2011, we kind of more of our projects took on an ecommerce and membership type focus.

Kim [00:05:35]:

This is, like Oh. Really when, You know, Facebook was big, but there weren’t private communities. There weren’t really a there wasn’t a market leader in WordPress for membership. S 2 member was was on the market. Wish list member was coming about. This is before MemberPress, about the time Restricted Content Pro came out. So everyone was kind of seeing this in their consulting projects.

Seth [00:05:54]:

Mhmm.

Kim [00:05:55]:

More membership focus, more WordPress as an application.

Seth [00:05:59]:

Yeah. That’s very cool. And so you kinda saw the writing on the wall, And you’re like, let’s prioritize stuff. And you went that way. So here’s a question for you. I mean, we kind of answered this a little bit because you went, you went to Asia, for most September, but what’s the best thing about being an entrepreneur in your mind?

Kim [00:06:19]:

In my mind, it’s being able to juggle home and work needs pretty seamlessly. Although people say, you know, work life balance, to me, that isn’t Fixed hours working, fixed hours doing your home life. It’s Yeah. Knowing when you need to flex both of those things. So for me, it’s that I can wake up at 6, Get an hour of work in, triage with my international team, get my kids off to school, go to the grocery store, do a little laundry, and then sit back down and have some work sessions. So I will say I work after dinner some nights, not every night, but I think I keep it healthy by giving myself time during the day To shop when no one’s shopping, to get things done, go on a dog walk, all of that stuff. Don’t feel bad about working weird hours or weekends If you’re flexing time during the week.

Seth [00:07:04]:

Oh, I love it. Like, if I need if I needed to to do laundry, it’s like I can just walk out to my office and throw laundry and come back, and then, Oh, it’s done. Time to switch it. I can do it. It’s like it’s not like, oh, I’m on a call after a call after a call, which can happen. But, like, I I can set my own schedule, which I like, though, which is kinda cool. And then what’s the what’s on the flip side? Because I mean, you said, like, you know, I can sympathize because my kid Had had complications at birth, was in the NICU for 6 weeks and all that stuff, and that kinda killed my entrepreneurial journey for about a year and a half. I went corporate decided that I can’t deal with that crap.

Seth [00:07:38]:

It’s a whole different ballgame that I was not wired for. And so what what what keeps you up at night besides Jason, kicking you.

Kim [00:07:47]:

Definitely early days, it was, will we make rent? Will we have enough? Incoming, will people pay us in time? Now with the product type business, it’s very stable.

Seth [00:07:57]:

So

Kim [00:07:57]:

I don’t worry about that as much anymore, but I did have those that was the flip side for me for many years. I think now the flip side is, like, my kids see me working because I work when they’re video gaming, and And to them, their perspective is, you know, mom works all the time.

Seth [00:08:12]:

Mhmm.

Kim [00:08:13]:

Also with our kids, because we work together, they see us having heated work that they sometimes when they were younger, they would interpret as mom and dad are fighting, and we’ve tried to show them, like, we’re not fighting with each other. We’re discussing a work thing, and we both care passionately about it. And, also, lots about it.

Seth [00:08:27]:

And, also, a lot of things that that I don’t know. Team member. Yep. And it’s often it’s often often with work things. You’re arguing about it, and you and it’s this frustration behind it as well, not with each other, but then with the situation. So then you’re already kind of fired up, and then You say something, and Jason doesn’t agree with you, and then it it’s just, and now I’m sure the kids are more like, ah, they’re just discussing work.

Kim [00:08:51]:

Yes. Yeah. I don’t think my kids will be entrepreneurs after what they’ve experienced with me. Even though it seems to benefit their lives, I think they’re like, I don’t want that stress. I don’t want that always on. You know? They hear the negative sides of it, and I don’t think they realize what other families’ Balance is like when mom’s working for someone else or or mom’s outside the house.

Seth [00:09:12]:

Yeah. I I think it’s kinda cool because, like, you know, if you the kids have, like, Halloween parade or something like that, you you both can go. It’s not a matter of, like, 1 if if only one’s a, entrepreneur and the other one’s a intrepreneur or whatever in in house of company, then it’s all on the entrepreneur side to go, are you guys just your schedule? It’s it’s it’s need to know the economy there. And you guys still like each other. At least at least at least looking at you guys, and I see you guys at conferences and see you guys in person, you seem like you still kinda like each other, which is a good thing.

Kim [00:09:44]:

It’s hard. Yeah. It’s so hard. We spend a ton of time together, so the the break I had in September was nice. And and Jason’s gonna take a sabbatical At the end of this year for 6 weeks, he’ll still be home, but he’s gonna create distance from work in a way that you know, in in the way he chooses to. I’m not gonna try to control it, but Yeah. We’ve had our bumps where the stress it created in our relationship, we questioned whether continuing to work together was the right choice. But we’re on a good high right now, And we just check-in and yeah.

Seth [00:10:16]:

And I think I I think you’re on a good track where you’re, like, you went to Asia for well, I mean, you really got the hell out of Dodge. I mean, you you went on another literally drill through the center of the Earth, went to the other side pretty much. But you know? And when I rock and busting Jason too much, he did, you know, say talk to came over May because Kim hasn’t been on as much. And I’m like, alright. But, you know, we’re gonna probably smack talk you a little bit. He’s like, I expect that. So You guy may

Kim [00:10:41]:

look into it.

Seth [00:10:41]:

Exactly. But, you know, I can imagine, you know, going to Asia, having some fun with your girlfriend, and this Unwinding is great, and, hopefully, Jason will have that opportunity to maybe not go to the other side of the world, but, you know, actually leave the house. That’s what that’s what I’ve always found with entrepreneurship is even when I take a break, I don’t leave the house. I I’m doing something else with the computer. And and sometimes you gotta peel yourself away from the computer. So, I mean, like, I did you bring you didn’t bring a computer with did you bring your computer with me?

Kim [00:11:10]:

No. No. I brought a Kindle and a phone.

Seth [00:11:13]:

And so that’s the way to do it. It’s just saying, like, I’m off. If you need me, you can call me only if you need me. And ask them, should I say good night to the kids or good morning? Wait. Yeah. It’s, like, 12 hours. Right?

Kim [00:11:26]:

Yeah. 12 hours difference. That’s the working with your spouse thing. We I was saying, even when I go on a vacation, if Jason’s with me, like, no kids. Right? Great. Jason’s with me. He and I are still ruminating on work things because they affect both of us, You know, just the way any couple would of of what It happens with me and Meredith all

Seth [00:11:44]:

the time.

Kim [00:11:44]:

But yeah.

Seth [00:11:45]:

Yeah.

Kim [00:11:45]:

Go ahead.

Seth [00:11:46]:

It happens with me and and Meredith all the time because it’s my business, but, you know, she’s ingrained in it. And I feel like that happens all the time. Like, we’ll go out on a date at lunch. She’ll she’ll work in the afternoon one day, and it’ll be like, cool. Let’s talk work. And I’m like, ugh. Then what else do you talk about? And then you talk about the kid

Kim [00:12:04]:

There isn’t much else.

Seth [00:12:06]:

You talk about the kid in school or the dog and her training and stuff like that. It’s, like, it’s it’s life, you know, and that’s done in the fun thing. So what now this is kinda this can be multiple fold because this because you can say, well, you care the question is, what is the most thing important thing to carry with you all the time? Now you can do that for when you’re in Asia. You do it from when you’re at home. You can do this a com couple of different ways.

Kim [00:12:28]:

Is this a physical thing?

Seth [00:12:30]:

You can do whatever you it could be that you bring with you mentally. You can go as deep as you want with this.

Kim [00:12:35]:

Oh, okay. I will go deep, and I will say that it’s definitely, like, Giving yourself grace, and it’s something I struggle with, but I think entrepreneurs are so driven. There’s no end to your to do list. There’s no, completing anything. Mhmm. You know? So I think it’s getting to the point where you can say, like, that’s enough for today, or I did enough yesterday. I feel satisfied with myself. Yeah.

Kim [00:13:00]:

We’re we’re our own worst critic, our own worst enemy, and there’s no one Mhmm. No. There’s no one giving you a performance review. There’s no one giving you a guidebook to say No.

Seth [00:13:08]:

Just they’re

Kim [00:13:08]:

not gonna be well, you’re doing poorly.

Seth [00:13:11]:

That would that would that end good. That would be bad. Then not that you perform badly, but you don’t give your wife a performance review. But, you know

Kim [00:13:19]:

Yeah.

Seth [00:13:19]:

How can you imagine? This is Kim. I’m giving you a performance review, and you’re like, you’re doing what?

Kim [00:13:25]:

No. You’re

Seth [00:13:26]:

you’re like, no. Not happening. Not happening. It’s just I I it’s neat because I’ve seen I’ve known you guys for years, and I’ve seen the evolution. And this is, like, one of the You’re one of the few podcast guests that I know pretty well. I’ve seen the evolution of your business. And, I mean, from afar, your relationship with Jason. Like, when you go to events, You tag team the events, you know, like, you’ll hang on each other.

Seth [00:13:50]:

Like, it’s like you’re there. You’re Kim and Jason. You’re not Kim Jason. You know? Yes. You can’t you can’t really do that. You can’t really mix those words up. I mean, it’s kinda but you also are a name brand, which is kinda neat because they know Kim And Jason Coleman, our payment membership pro.

Kim [00:14:06]:

Yeah.

Seth [00:14:06]:

So much so that Matt Mullen, like, went for Jason’s jugular. And And then but then and I was very proud of you for not saying don’t mess with my man. You let him deal with it. I I I I

Kim [00:14:19]:

had a few drafted tweets, But I didn’t let them out into the world. It’s it’s that art of writing the main email and and not sending it. Right? Yeah. And letting him do it. Out, but I don’t need to feel this fire.

Seth [00:14:31]:

And then I think we all kinda went at mad because Jason’s such a sweetheart. I mean, you might know another side of Jason that we don’t know, but we

Kim [00:14:38]:

think He is.

Seth [00:14:39]:

Hourly, he’s he’s the biggest teddy bear you know. He’s a he wouldn’t hurt a fly. And someone went for his jugular, and we’re like, woah. No. No. No. No. No.

Seth [00:14:47]:

No. There’s plenty of other asshats out there. I’ll never get the explicit tag right there. But there’s plenty of asshats, the WordPress ecosystem. Jason and Kim are not one of them.

Kim [00:14:57]:

No. And and he’s probably even more concerned, more into, more committed to open source than, like, Any product owner I know Yeah. And he’s more passionate about it in in ways no one will ever see, decisions we make. You know, it seems like financial decisions all the time in business, but we make the one that leans toward being more open, being more publicly available, Being more free, more often than not because we’re we’re comfortable. We’re fine, and that’s what got all of us here with this WordPress Community was that openness. It’s sad to see it evolve and become more commercialized

Seth [00:15:34]:

and more business focused. Yeah. It’s, awkward to say the least.

Kim [00:15:39]:

Shirt. Success is open source.

Seth [00:15:41]:

I know. I still need one of those shirts. I still need one of those shirts. Anyhow, so I love this, And we could talk for hours. I’m sure, you know and we do it. When we go to these events, we see each other. We chat all the time. You guys are trying to do your sponsored booth, and I’m just yapping to you guys the whole time and all that stuff.

Seth [00:15:58]:

That’s great. But, where can people find you? Where is it where is your Hangout online? Like, is it LinkedIn? Is it Instagram? Is it Facebook?

Kim [00:16:08]:

I’m trying to be more active on LinkedIn, but it’s a challenge because I I don’t think everyone’s come over there. So the best place is really x Or Twitter. Coleman Coleman k 83, you’ll find me. But I’m also in the Make WordPress Slack if you need to find me.

Seth [00:16:22]:

Yeah. Everyone. Literally, if you’re in WordPress, she she’s there.

Kim [00:16:25]:

Yep.

Seth [00:16:26]:

You’re in every I think you’re in every WordPress Slack out there.

Kim [00:16:29]:

I try to be.

Seth [00:16:30]:

Yeah. And you guys are very accessible. That’s what I’m telling you about payment membership pro. It’s not like it’s it’s hierarchical. I mean, like, yeah, you guys are the owners. But literally, some shit hits the fan. I’m like, Cam, something broke. And you’re like, what? Woah.

Seth [00:16:42]:

Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Let me figure let me figure what happened. And, like, not always you see it, you know, the the head of the com company jump in and say, what the alright. Let’s fix it. Not that there’s not any problems with the plug in, but Plug ins, you know, it’s open source.

Seth [00:16:55]:

Crap happens all the time. So and then people can find you at pmp plugin.com. Right?

Kim [00:17:01]:

P and pro plug in .com, you’ll get there.

Seth [00:17:03]:

I was so close.

Kim [00:17:05]:

No. You’re fine. We need that domain.

Seth [00:17:07]:

Yeah. Exactly. We’ll put they’ll put in the channel. It’s a it’s a great plug in, Great community. And, I mean and, honestly, the base is free. I’m seeing this get it, play with it, and then if you need extra support and stuff, that’s when you kind of say, hey, here’s some scratch. Let’s let’s let’s talk and get stuff rock and roll. So I like your business model as well.

Seth [00:17:25]:

It’s like, Here’s the here’s our product. Let us know if you need help. Yep. It’s great. Kim, thanks for so so much for being on. It’s It’s been so much fun. I’m just glad we finally got you on. We’ve been talking about this for a while.

Seth [00:17:39]:

So

Kim [00:17:40]:

I’ll rebook. This was great. It went by too fast.

Seth [00:17:42]:

It it goes by fast. Always does, but I like keeping them around 17 minutes and so because

Kim [00:17:46]:

Good.

Seth [00:17:46]:

They’re they’re digestible. They’re not like these, like, the Twitter network that goes for 2 hours. I’m like it’s literally the Sunday times every Wednesday, every Sunday. I don’t have time for that. Exactly. Anyhow, Kim, thanks for being on, and we’ll see everyone next time.

Kim [00:18:01]:

Bye bye.

Seth [00:18:01]:

That was a great show. If you’re enjoying Entrepreneur’s Enigma, please view us in the podcast directory of your choice. Every review helps other podcast listeners find our show. If you’re looking for other podcasts in the marketing space, look no further than the marketing podcast network at marketing pod casts.net. Goldstein hopes you have enjoyed this episode.